Curse

Thorondor Port · Sep 11, 2007, 12:04 AM // 00:04

I still enjoy hall of heroes.
Although I liked when pvp determined when the pves could get into uw and fow.

heres my opinions and why I like pvp more

Pve = hench and heroes (always) for me. Its boring to play with no real humans, but they all seem to suck when you do party with them.

Wait thats it.
Am I claiming pvers are all noobs?

....yea basically.
Congrats with your cartograph titles and the liking.

Kaane · Sep 11, 2007, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

Boooo. That's grinders PvP.
That's grind to overpower others and whomever has the most time to invest has the greatest advantage.
We got enough of those types of online rpg PvP games.

You've clearly got no experience with either of those games if you think you need to grind to win in them.

UO they ain't.

o m g pizowned · Sep 11, 2007, 12:07 AM // 00:07

whether any pvper wants to admit it or not, HA was done with the intent of the chest at the end. whether you wanted to get rank 9 or not, you wouldn't do it if there wasn't a reward at the end
inscriptions = fail

Mai · Sep 11, 2007, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

We are always interested in suggestions to improve any aspect of the game, PvP included. You can always post on my wiki talk page, or take part in some of the discussions in the PvP section of this, or other forums.

I do not think PvP is dead, or even dying. Could it be doing better? Yes. Would I like it to be doing better? Yes, I don't think there is anyone here who wouldn't like to see more players taking part in PvP. But there are still quite a few players who PvP daily, and new players continue to join. If you think there are ways to bring more players into the PvP side of the game, please share them. There are a number of discussions on that very topic and they are full of great ideas.

If you have constructive comments, concerns, or suggestions, please visit the PvP section of this forum (or wherever the mods want it really, I don't know where you would prefer it) or post on my talk page: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_talk:Andrew_Patrick

Kuntor hit the mark

How can you not see that pvp is dead?

I respect your efforts in trying to fix what Gaile neglected when you came in but you just can't bring a corpse back to life. From the lack of significant skill balancing now a days (something that used to happen every couple months) to the Hall of heroes fiasco, these problems and many others has led many PvP guilds to call it quits. What you have now is a very stale PvP game that's been homogenized for the PvE community.

Bryant Again · Sep 11, 2007, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorondor Port

I still enjoy hall of heroes.
Although I liked when pvp determined when the pves could get into uw and fow.

Yeah I loved it when Japan/Korea/Taiwan never got to see FoW /sarcasm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorondor Port

Congrats with your cartograph titles and the liking.

Will do!

For me, I just don't like the casual play in Guild Wars. I wish there was more skill involved. As it is - for casual PvP, mind you - I can only bring Rock, hope for Scissors and pray I don't run into Paper. That, and the fact that I haven't so far ran into a game that had more assholes (^) than GW.

Yichi · Sep 11, 2007, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Honestly there are only a handfull of people who have posted in this thread that have even half a clue on PvP metas, gameplay, etc. or even have the even slightest idea of what they are talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by o m g pizowned

whether any pvper wants to admit it or not, HA was done with the intent of the chest at the end. whether you wanted to get rank 9 or not, you wouldn't do it if there wasn't a reward at the end
inscriptions = fail

Wrong. Tombs/HA (now) was done with the intent of meeting new people that played on a similar level as you did and forming a guild together to compete in Guild vs Guild combat. The end chest was to give the team a reward for playing and winning against other competitors. The chest wasnt about only the items. It was the only way to be able to earn a sigil for your guildhall. Thus the implimentation of Tombs/HA in the firstplace.

The biggest mistake anet made which helped kill competitive PvP was to stop offering the world championships. They offered two and just basically threw competitive PvP under the bus. This combined with no full UAX for PvP only characters were its 2 biggest downfalls. Others such as lack of skill balances and under-concieved ideas and classes brought into the game only further pushed it down into the ground. All of these things basically gave no one any real focus to strive to be the best at this game anymore. Now we play for a 100 dollar video card that I could go buy in less time than trying to get 7 other people coordinated and talented enough to beat everyone else out there.

ArenaNet's initial design was one of the most innovative on the market when Guildwars: Prophecies was released. A game that was revolved around the idea of the endgame content being strictly PvP and there were every indication of it being that was in the origional design and concept and creation of the game. They were however misguided in their attempts by the fact that not many players took to this and stayed in the PvE storyline of the game, thus forcing them to change their game entirely which has now been seen with Factions, Nightfall, and Eye of the North. While factions tried to adapt and push the more casual gamer crowd into more competitive PvP by the controlling of towns and outposts through faction and Alliance battles, it failed in its pursuit of doing so. The same rewards (aka faction) was given through the game as repeatable quests so it gave the PvE crowd no real reason to delve into the forms of PvP that they currently offered. By the time Nightfall and Eye of the North rolled around, you saw a complete turnaround of EVERYTHING PvP related tied into the origional concept of the game, thus finally appealing to the majority of its customerbase which as the games progressed, saw more PvE content added to the game, and Virtually nothing added to the PvP content. While the PvE customers help to supply your customer base, Anet made a hugely fatal mistake by not supporting its customerbase that helped to advertise its game and promote its game which was the PvP playerbase. Yes there were PvE trials and demos at different events and conventions, It was the Guildwars World Championships and the Guildwars Factions Championships which were used on display to help show the diversity and gameplay that guildwars had and is now lost.

Lianna · Sep 11, 2007, 12:24 AM // 00:24

PvP died ages ago. It just isn't as fun as it once was due to title grind and the recent changes.

Chris Blackstar · Sep 11, 2007, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Anet killed PvP by merging it with PvE. A mistake that cost them big time, but needless to say one that they claim will not be repeated in there next release, Guild Wars 2.

IMO, PvP sucks because it is TOO competitive, teams are out there more to win by any means possible, that is not for me, but maybe for the players of PvP, so I stick to PvE.

All I ask is that Anet seperate PvP from PvE like they plan to in GW 2, then update PvP to make it more balance with out effecting PvE.

o m g pizowned · Sep 11, 2007, 12:39 AM // 00:39

pvp was meant to meet new people? rofl are you joking
anyone r6+ shuts out anyone who is 'new' to pvp

Apok Omen · Sep 11, 2007, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Um, what else is new?

Maiyn · Sep 11, 2007, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

IMO it's a ton of things that killed PvP. One thing doesn't usually wreck something like this but a string of things going wrong.

QFT...

I don't think it was recent changes personally, the recent changes were things needed at least a year ago.

It was a lot of things combined that started over a year ago, the instability (or madness imo) caused by subsequent chapters, the change of tombs to 6v6, the lack of skill balancing, the destruction of the gvg ladder without even an adequate replacement until like half a year later (that was the one that was a kick to my face being a gvg player over all else). I'm sure there are other things people could bring up, like heros, and HB or AB or kill count. I really do think we're all just expecting a bit much, and balancing pvp became too difficult to be done within a reasonable timeframe if at all. Unforeseen complications, it happens.

I'm not going to complain though, GW was great for me. I played it for like 2 and half years, both pve and competitive pvp. It offered me a lot of fun. As it did for most of you if you think about it. Can't really last forever though.

Yichi · Sep 11, 2007, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by o m g pizowned

pvp was meant to meet new people? rofl are you joking
anyone r6+ shuts out anyone who is 'new' to pvp

did u bother to even read the post or just pull something out of your ass to raise your post count?

There are plenty of low ranked people that could form a guild together to HA more often and improve themselves as players and a team. What do you think most of the PvP guilds started out doing? The problem is that people do not want to work to get better and learn from their expierences, they think that because they are there, it should be handed to them just because they play the game.

Taurucis · Sep 11, 2007, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorondor Port

I still enjoy hall of heroes.
Although I liked when pvp determined when the pves could get into uw and fow.

heres my opinions and why I like pvp more

Pve = hench and heroes (always) for me. Its boring to play with no real humans, but they all seem to suck when you do party with them.

Wait thats it.
Am I claiming pvers are all noobs?

....yea basically.
Congrats with your cartograph titles and the liking.

Actually, PvP shouldn't determine if PvE should get to play somewhere. Everyone has favor now, not just Europe.

I hate to repeat what almost everyone else says but if you don't like PuGs, get a guild. And that elitist attitude won't get you a good one.

People don't like to invite egomaniacs who call them noobs.

I know just who you are btw

makosi · Sep 11, 2007, 01:12 AM // 01:12

For me personally, Build Wars ruined PvP for me. It's a real turn-off.

Nowadays, PvXwiki allows you to copy and paste a good build and you can mash the buttons away and win. Ok, that's and oversimplified view but generally speaking it is true.

It's only human for people to want to win and they'll do so by any means and this means that we'll exploit overpowered skills and/or skill combinations. There will always be overpowered and underpowered skills because balancing 1000+ skills is a colossal task for mere mortals.

Take IWAY for example. When they extended the range to radar it allowed the old common IWAY build to function well [4 W/R, N/Mo, N/E, 2 R trappers]. It was overpowered and not many people would disagree. It took a beating with the nerf stick and we all expected to see a refreshing mix of balanced, synergized and co-ordinated parties instead of 5 IWAY teams in halls.

Then Power Of My Rangers held halls for like days on end with dual orders Ranger Spike which was overpowered (although not to the extent of old IWAY) and was nerfed but not to extinction. (At least it required good timing, accuracy and synergy to function.)

Then blood spike, then rainbow spike, then paraway, then ri[f]t spike, spike, spike, spike. Maybe if there were more counters to spikes than Infuse Health it would discourage the 3, 2, 1 mentality and allow creative and enriched play. It's not fair if the designated infuser has a tiny bit of lag, or sneezes or has an angina attack because they will miss their split-second opportunity to save their ally.

I do a lot of Randumb Arena and often reach Team Arenas to face... wait for it... a 3, 2 ,1 spike build [often consisting of Ritualists with about 10 spirits chucking balls at creatures who dare to go near]. They camp at the spirits and wait for something to come near so they can spike it down with 4x 100+ damage Channeling spells.

If its not Rits, it's Conjure Warriors or Thumpers with a ZB prot monk and another ball-chucking spirit spamming camper. All of which they copied from PvX wiki.

GvG is something I've rarely did but I enjoy observing. It's often the case that high-end GvG parties have identical or near-identical builds. Usually 2 Conjure warriors, a Melandru dervish [no conditions? Wtf where they thinking?!], a Diversion mesmer, blind-bot emo, Burning Arrow ranger with Mending Touch, a Mo/A LoD infuser and SoD Prot monk with GoLE.

I feel that the metagame becomes stale and predictible very quickly. Skill balance updates are great, even if they ruin your favourite builds because sometimes they shake up the common builds but it only takes a few days for the new common builds to form that everyone uses.

Just my 2 pence.

street peddler · Sep 11, 2007, 01:16 AM // 01:16

if by dead you mean its all the same builds, then yea. /copypasta from gwiki kthx

brian78wa · Sep 11, 2007, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanquisher

AT's are not a good system in this game.
Guild Wars as a competitive game lost its better players long before EotN.
The best thing that ever happened to competitive PvP was taken out to protect PvE, clearly highlighting ArenaNets priorities (to be fair though, it wouldn't have been a hard decision - satisfy 90%, or 10%).

You have that completely backwords. Most of the stuff was done to protect PvP. The PvErs are the ones that suffered the brute of the skill balances because PvPers abused the hell out of skills.

*lemming* · Sep 11, 2007, 01:34 AM // 01:34

You'd have to be rather clueless if you think that teams running highly similar meta builds has anything to do with it. The very fact that some people seem to be attributing many gvg builds resembling each other to "wiki" indicates their lack of credibility on this issue.

A metagame where one balanced build is prevalent isn't problematic as long as playing it more skillfully equates to wins.

Mai · Sep 11, 2007, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian78wa

You have that completely backwords. Most of the stuff was done to protect PvP. The PvErs are the ones that suffered the brute of the skill balances because PvPers abused the hell out of skills.

PvErs cry about anything that remotely forces them to think outside the box. Look at GW:EN section and tell me otherwise, even with your overpowered PvE skills you'll try to find ways to make even the most easy task/dungeon seem like an impossible task and try to tell ANET that's it not the player but the game that is difficult.

PvErs are the majority in this game and they are the most vocal about any change to their homogenized game.(soul reap change anyone?)

Esan · Sep 11, 2007, 01:46 AM // 01:46

+1 to PvP is already dead. It's been dying since the release of Factions, and has progressed far into rigor mortis by GW:EN.
It's dead because ArenaNet morphed into a PvE company. A sensible decision, when PvE makes the majority of sales by far.
Given the vagaries of the MMO market, protecting their source of income should be high on Anet's priorities.

makosi · Sep 11, 2007, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehlemming

You'd have to be rather clueless if you think that teams running highly similar meta builds has anything to do with it. The very fact that some people seem to be attributing many gvg builds resembling each other to "wiki" indicates their lack of credibility on this issue.

A metagame where one balanced build is prevalent isn't problematic as long as playing it more skillfully equates to wins.

Agreed. Hence GvG remains the highest form of PvP with least gimmicks and noticeably requires a greater degree of personal and team skill. I feel that teams with closely similar builds are indicative of a) excellent functionality, utility and convenience and b) embracing/exploiting/abusing [<-- pick one] overpowered skills/builds. The latter is somewhat problematic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian78wa

You have that completely backwords. Most of the stuff was done to protect PvP. The PvErs are the ones that suffered the brute of the skill balances because PvPers abused the hell out of skills.

I personally disagree, I don't feel any PvP-oriented changes have adversely affected me, including soul reaping. I notice that as a Necro in PvE,I have to manage and monitor my energy more closely but not to an extent that I suffer because of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mai

PvErs cry about anything that remotely forces them to think outside the box. Look at GW:EN section and tell me otherwise, even with your overpowered PvE skills you'll try to find ways to make even the most easy task/dungeon seem like an impossible task and try to tell ANET that's it not the player but the game that is difficult.

PvE players tend to be more vocal on the forums but, as one of them, I feel your over-generalizations are harsh.